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| RJew | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 4:55 pm on 7.24.2003 |
| In recent years the Bnei Noach, or Noahide movement, has seen an extraordinary increase in numbers and activity around the world. Its adherents are non-Jews who embrace the truth of the Torah and therefore accept the seven ‘Laws of Noah’ – those laws which are incumbent upon gentiles as well as Jews. Israel National Radio’s Tamar Yonah recently interviewed Jacob Sharf, a ‘Ben Noach,’ son of Noah, who explains that he espouses “The Orthodox stream of Judaism for non-Jews, which consists of observance of the seven laws given by God to Noah after the flood which are obligatory for all of humanity.” Sharf explains that “this is not a new concept, it is in fact the religious observance of Job, Adam and Abraham before God formed the unique covenant with the Jewish people.” The seven laws are to refrain from idolatry, to refrain from sexual immorality, to refrain from blasphemy, to refrain from murder, to refrain from theft, to refrain from eating the limb of a living animal and to establish courts of law. “These laws make intellectual sense to me but that is not why I observe them,” Sharf explains, “I do so because God commanded me to do so.” Sharf was raised “a nominal Christian” and began studying the New Testament on his own, slowly discarding belief after belief through study of the Old Testament until he and his study partners found themselves with an identical belief system to Orthodox Judaism. He then pursued conversion to Judaism until he “realized that God had made [him] a non-Jew for a reason” and decided that there was much work to be done spreading monotheism’s belief in the One God of Abraham among the non-Jews of the world. Sharf described the difficulty of maintaining a Noahide life and finding a support structure. “Often one finds oneself the only Ben Noach in a city,” he laments. However, with the advent of the Internet, thousands of Bnei Noach have been able to form online communities and several physical communities have formed as well. Places such as Dallas, Texas are host to hundreds of Bnei Noach and Wendell Jones (the famed archaeologist on whom the Indiana Jones movies were loosely based) even led his church to become Bnei Noach “removing the cross and the New Testament from the house of worship.” Sharf runs an educational web site called www.HaMayim.org and started a Bnei Noach dating web site as well in an attempt to allow single Bnei Noach to meet one another. HaMayim means “the water” and is a reference to the verse in Isaiah (11:9) which prophesies that as the redemption of the world draws near “the earth shall be full of the knowledge of God, as the waters cover the sea.” The rest of the interview can be heard on
Israel National Radio at http://www.israelnn.com/metafiles/asx/shows/tamar.asx
ip: 67.87.72.58
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| liora | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 4:35 pm on 10.14.2003 |
I just don't really get this Noachide thing at all. What do they actually do? Do they practice, and how? people say they obey the Noachide laws faithfully, but those laws are so crucial and essential (aren't they?)that I don't really see there is many people around who don't want to go by them, whatever their religion is. I don't want to offend anyone by this. I would only like to know what this is all about.
ip: 62.78.235.59
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| Ellen | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 12:59 am on 10.15.2003 |
I think what they "do" is to agree that Judaism is the best religion, even though they are not actually eligible to be Jews themselves. The Jewish religion's rules for non-Jews, as it were. It would be sort of as if the mathematics faculty at a university launched a highly publicized drive for all the humanities and social science majors to memorize multiplication tables, and stuck a famous mathematician's name on it. I think this is a movement that's really being pushed by certain Jewish groups, such as Chabad, who for some reason have decided that people who are not Jewish can still be "The Next Best Thing." Maybe they think it's better for Jews who intermarry to marry Noahides than members of other religions. But I agree with liora that belonging to a religion should give one something tangible to participate in. Refraining from murder, etc. does not necessarily change what kind of religious rituals and practices one may engage in in the home, nor make one a better person than the vast majority of gentiles out there already are!
ip: 169.207.132.236
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| WelcomeTheStranger | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 1:09 pm on 10.15.2003 |
I agree with Ellen that this is weird, especially because these people ARE "eligible to be Jews themselves"!! If only we did a better job welcoming people into the Jewish community, maybe there would actually be more Jews in the world than there are Sikhs or Mormons, two much newer religions. If you read the Torah, conversions in Biblical times were relatively simple: "Your people is my people, your God my God." Only with the rabbinic layering that came later did we create all these hoops to jump through, and then in the middle ages (when both the converter and convertee to Judaism was punishable by death) did we get a bunch more hoops, like a rabbi turning away potential converts three times before accepting their sincerity.
ip: 141.157.235.133
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| Ellen | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 3:23 pm on 10.15.2003 |
| WTS, The problem as I see it is that if we make it too easy for just anyone to convert, then we'll be flooded with people who have absolutely no commitment to following the mitzvot (Jewish commandments). If that were to happen, then "Judaism" wouldn't be Judaism anymore. What makes me uncomfortable with this Bnei Noach business, even if it did provide its followers with something to *do* as liora pointed out, is that it's a movement originating with people who don't want to join, as in "Here's a religion that we think would be good for you people, but not for us. Why don't you join?" Besides, it's on such a basic level that just about any religion from the past 25 centuries has to be richer and more satisfying. I think if I were a non-Jew, I would probably find it pretty insulting for anyone to suggest I become a "Noachide."
ip: 169.207.136.2
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| WelcomeTheStranger | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 3:47 pm on 10.15.2003 |
| Agreed and agreed. But I'm not saying make conversion "too" easy, just easier. Though if we did, I really doubt we'd be "flooded" with people who aren't committed to Judaism. Why would they bother, if it has no meaning to them? Also, commitment to Judaism is not 100% tied into ALL the mitzvot. The majority of Jews do not keep Kosher, even in Israel(!), yet they would lay down their lives for their people if they had to. For some non-Jews, commitment to Judaism means forgoing their religion-of-origin to raise Jewish children with their Jewish spouses. To me, that's the greatest gift they can give to the Jewish people: their children. We need to find better ways to make them feel part of the Jewish community. Easier conversion is just an idea. There is another movement besides the Bnei Noach, to call these folks "Ger Toshav," "resident alien," but I find that is just another way to keep them in a separate status.
ip: 68.161.200.60
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| liora | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 3:54 pm on 10.15.2003 |
| I share a lots of thoughts with you, Ellen. I am glad I'm not the only one who feels a bit weird with this Noachide business. For me it sounds a little silly and somehow artificial that someone "agrees" on someone else's religion, but doesn't have a religion himself or doesn't want to adapt the religion he/she thinks is best anyway. Then again, I never met one of this "committed Noachides", even though all my non-Jewish friends really refrain from murders and ripping flesh on living animals. Maybe they are Noachides without even knowing it? Whatever it is, I can hardly see it as an alternative for conversion.
ip: 62.78.235.59
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| lena | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 4:05 am on 10.19.2004 |
as a bat noach i feel that for me, the seven laws fit me best. i spent 2 years studying to convert to orthodox judaism and at the moment before i was to go to the mikveh i realized that i just couldnt do it. i couldnt be a jew, i was created for something else.
not every gentile was meant to be a jew, but every gentile was meant to be a ben/bat noach.
ip: 129.120.109.37
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| mj1 | [ Profile - Edit Post ] | 2:26 pm on 5.6.2005 |
| Lena, thank you for adding yout unique experience as a bene Noach to this discussion. It is so wonderful to hear that non-Jews are embracing the truth of Torah, without feeling the pressure to convert and be obliged in the Mitzvot, as are we Jews. May your connection to God through the mitzvot assigned to you as a bene Noach only be strengthened! FYI, for the rest of the Board, as I'm sure Lena can tell you, there is much more to being a Noachide than a handful of rules. There is much study involved and the 7 Noahide laws are much more extensive than their title would indicate. For those truly interested, they can read more about this in
$14.95
Seven Colors of the Rainbow:
Torah Ethics for
Non-Jews
Bindman, Rabbi YirmeyahuA presentation of the concepts behind the seven laws of Noah that provide the keys to a civilized world and the precepts of universal morality. 138 pp. Paperback
$20.99
The Path of the Righteous Gentile
Clorfene, Chaim; Rogalsky, Rabbi Yakov
A philosophical and historical presentation of the doctrine of the Seven Laws of Noah. 150 pp. Targum Press
All the best.
ip: 209.248.222.90
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